The perhaps you should lok<<< at a thesaurus once in awhile. CAPTURED Synonyms: Abduct Acquire Apprehend Arrest Catch Collar Detain Enmesh Ensnare Grasp Hook KIDNAP Nab Obtain Rope Secure Seize Snare Snatch Win Antonym: Liberate I suppose that since Mike Benge was a civilian, he too was kidnapped which in your definition does not apply to captured, huh? Come up for air yet? Steve And I should get a spell-checker

You know, I have been assuming all this time that you knew something and let it ride, thinking you had some kind of inner knowledge that was pushing you forward.  You don't do you? You don't seem to know that both the V.C. and their tax collectors had Kidnapping down as one of their very favorite methods of getting their message across. I don't know too much about Joe except he thinks somehow someone would want to live in and around the old Naval Shipyards in Wilmington, but you are looney tunes kiddo.  I wish you well, but you just made the top five number of hidden agenda's without a clue to reality. Patrick, top five hidden agenda's without a clue to reality. Is the reality that because Joe Schlatter and an occasional word (call that lie) from Bob [Source] Destatte claim that there are no live Americans left in captivity and Jimi claims that there are, she's the looney toon? 2 career bureaucrats who have made their living, bought their homes, put their kids through college, because of the POW/MIA issue versus someone who has spent her own life savings in search of the real deal and you claim that she's looney toons. Our government doesn't lie to the people, right Pat? I mean, that little incident in the Tonkin Gulf really wasn't a lie, right? And Arlen Spechter and Gerry Ford didn't come up with the magic bullet theory, right? Let's not forget that Agent Orange was only a harmless defoliantand there really is no Gulf War Syndrome. PTSD is really something the loafers came up with. I guess it really boils down to depending on what is is, huh? And I guess the IRS is really our friends, afterall. But Jimi beleiving that these middle managers who earned a comfortable living proving that no American could survive captivity, and therefore are somehow less sustainable than South Koreans who obviously can survive captivity, is looney toons, huh? Some things to think about, Pat. No flame intended. Steve

I don't trust the goverment anymore than you appear to, but the reality of a combat zone is that it is a dangerous place to be hanging with the homies. I happen to agree with you on this one.  But to claim we're ignorant of what reality was in that godforsaken hellhole merely shows your lack of understanding in the overall picture. Take your complaint to the owners of the problem, the CIA, and ask them why they needed to use missionaries; missions and leprosariums as fronts throughout Vietnam and Laos, prior to and during the war.   But since you have such a clear understanding of what REALLY happened during that war, you should already know. Make it a point to talk directly with Mike Benge who survived more than five years in captivity and is still with USAid.   Mike served in the Marine Corps from 1956 through 1959. Ask Mike if Betty Olsen was kidnapped or captured.  Then listen very carefully to what he has to say from first hand experience.   Mike will tell you about being held in cages in a POW camp in Darlac Province with Betty Olsen. Chained together, Benge and Olsen were moved from one encampment to another over 200 miles through the mountainous jungles.  They were physically depleted, sick from dysentery and malnutrition; beset by fungus, infection, leeches and ulcerated sores. Mike contracted cerebral malaria and nearly died.  He credits Betty with keeping him alive. Their bodies were covered with sores and they had pyorrhea from beri-beri.  Their teeth were loosening and gums infected.   Olsen was getting weaker and weaker and the Vietnamese began to kick and drag her to keep her moving.  Benge, trying to defend her, was beaten with rifle butts.  Just before crossing the border into Cambodia, Olsen weakened to the point that she could no longer move. They were allowed to gather bamboo shoots but were not told how to cook it. Bamboo needs to be boiled in two waters to extract an acid substance... (no doubt you know that, Patrick).  Not knowing, Olsen and Benge boiled their food only once and were beset with immobilizing stomach cramps within a half-hour; diarrhea soon followed.  Betty weakened and finally died.  Mike buried her. He was taken into Cambodia.  After a year he was marched north on the Ho Chi Minh Trail to Hanoi and spent over three years in camps there, including 27 months in solitary confinement. After more than five years in captivity, Mike Benge returned home during Operation Homecoming in 1973.  Read his personal story, We Came Home at the end of his bio at: http://www.asde.com/~pownet/ Click on Biographies of POW/MIA Personnel - Vietnam. Joe just attempted to discredit the POW/MIA biographies.  Talk to former POWS and ask them, rather than relying on Joe or Bob's skewered information.  Get the truth from the horse's mouth and you'll discover the info contained in the bios is far more trustworthy than Bob or Joe's deceitful disinformation. [Mike also saw an American aircraft come so close to one camp that he could see the pilot's face.  The pilot 'wagged his wings' and flew away.  But you've heard of this happening before on this n/g, by former POW Frank Anton.  And you heard Schlatter jump on discrediting his story like flies on honey.  Now you'll hear the same story from another POW, a former Marine.] One more comment about the female POWS.  All female POWS, including Betty Olsen and Dr. Eleanor Vietti, were included in the Memorial Dedication ceremony at the Wall on November 11, 1993 when The Vietnam Women's Memorial was dedicated. In honor of the women who served during the Vietnam War.  Remembered now, and never to be forgotten. Dedication by the Vietnam Women's Memorial Project, Inc. That poster hangs above my desk as a constant reminder of of the women who were taken as prisoners; Dr. Eleanor Vietti, Betty Olsen, Beatrice Kosin and Evelyn Anderson.  All but Betty Olsen may still be alive today. Please remember these women when you pay your respects at the Wall this Memorial Day. Nor will I ever forget the atrocities men like Mike Benge and all the other POWS endured...and continue to endure...at the hands of the Communists. For anyone on this newsgroup to allow deceivers and debunkers like Joe Schlatter and Bob Destatte to sway their thinking is irresponsible. Don't take my word, do your homework and you, too, will know the FULL truth of what really happened to those taken captive during that ugly war. The simple facts in that hellhole, using your words, Patrick.  Because former and current prisoners are part of the 'simple facts of that hellhole.'  That includes the women as well as the men. Mike Benge could be a starting point for you.

I realize fully that I am talking to a wall here, but, there may be someone out there following this thread who would like to know a fact. There is no such thing as a Category 1 POW. Back during the war, in anticipation of the release of US POWs, and in preparation for searching for missing men, US intel tried to make some judgements as to what the enemy would know about a missing man. Analysts from all the services were asked to review the loss incidents and make a judgement as to what they thought the enemy would know about this man.  For example, in the case of a navy aviator lost in a crash off the end of a carrier, the Vietnamese would know nothing about his fate, so it would not be real smart for us to ask them about him.  On the other hand, in the case of a guy who was killed in an ambush, his unit withdrew, then, when they returned to search for him, found his body gone, it's a good bet that PAVN would know something about him. The process was not particularly productive.  For example, there are a number of instances in which two men were lost in an aircraft